Marco Tech Blog

September 27, 2005

Delphi Roadmap (by David I)

At the EKON conference David I has revealed a lot about the future of Delphi and of the VCL.

posted by marcocantu @ 11:49AM | 20 Comments [0 Pending]

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Best Delphi news since Delphi 1?

Comment by John on September 27, 13:04

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Hello, just a short comment regarding Avalon & Indigo
>Delphi for Vista (2007) will include a VCL for 
Avalon and Indigo support
 
Avalon is now called WPF (Windows Presentation 
Foundation) and Indigo is WCF (Windows Communication 
Foundation). Both are parts of WinFX, which will be 
available also for Windows XPSP2/2003SP1. So IMHO 
Delphi for Vista should be called Delphi.WinFX or
just Delphi 12 (with VCL.WinFX, VCL.Win32 and 
VCL.Win64)

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1861228,00.asp

Best regards,
Roman

Comment by roman on September 27, 13:19

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

This (I hope) will put an end to all the jabberish 
about Borland abandoning Delphi.

Comment by SupportX on September 27, 13:26

These are really good news! 

After reading your post about "Delphi roadmap" on the
Delphi&Dintorni usergroup, I was quite sure you would
have written a few lines here, too. ;-)

I think these news about the future of Delphi are
really exciting! I am only sad I have to wait before
these great features become available... :-)

I am also happy that Borland has connected so many
platforms and solutions entirely based on VCL, from
Win32 to .NET, from CF.NET to Avalon: it's a real
proof of the unestimated value of that library
(sometimes underestimated, I think, especially
nowadays) and a confirmation of the way I perceive
VCL.NET: an independent tool to develop new
applications while aiding in porting "old" ones.

ps:
I'll wait for Bob's picture and some detailed news and
links to write about it on my extremely unpretentious
blog; by the way, it's clear that this site is already
listed in my blogrool. :-)

Bye,
  Marco.

Comment by Marco Breveglieri [http://www.marco.breveglieri.name] on September 27, 13:48

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Excellent News!!!!

Thanks.

Comment by Aniket on September 27, 15:30

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Finally I heard a happy news about Delphi's Future :-
)

Thank you Marco for these great news

Comment by Mohammed Nasman on September 27, 17:25

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

 >>This (I hope) will put an end to all the jabberish 
about Borland abandoning Delphi.

what about the community abandoning Delphi? (not 
because they want to, but because there is no choice)

what was the sales drop for Delphi 2005?

Microsoft has had (beta) Visual Studio for .NET 2.0 
for a while now, does Borland plan anything (free 
beta versions) like this?

Comment by BTX on September 27, 20:30

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Good news!

It's a piece of peace at this moment for the delphi
developers community to hear about delphi future.

Larga vida a delphi!

Comment by Juan Antonio Castillo H. [http://www.clubdelphi.com/users/jachguate] on September 27, 20:46

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

 It's not the jabberish about Borland abandoning
Delphi, it's the management viewing it as a cash cow
and so pulling out resources for other grand plans,
leading to too little too late for people like me
trying to develop not huge enterprise apps. Eco ->
architect only until the end of this year and
tutorials, demo's etc coming. Compact framework -
stymied but resource decision over a VCL and Microsoft
on the design tool and something emerging next year
Delphi 2005 was desperately poor in terms of quality
until the end of the months of patches when it results
in a great win32 development tool with all the
components etc. though the traditionally dismal help
still doesn't work for me even if one could find
anything in it. delphibasics.co.uk, MS documentation
and delphi.about.com show that it's perfectly possible
to do it. All the other things coming much later than
the very able team could have done them given the
resources and not a management viewing it as a product
not for leading. How many talks on the 24 hours of
delphi were we're doing that or going to but...
resources?  Kylix  - shelved. Mono support for cross
platform? Not highlighted to be easy. Books on D2005 
- your very able one. Jobs listing Delphi? USP's of
Delphi ECO and Win32? I've used Delphi since version
1, but can't see a justification for using it over
visual studio 2005 for dot net development and
commercially need to switch. It's frustrating to
discover that one's skill set is becoming a minority
skill set.

Comment by John on September 27, 21:03

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

 And who excactly will use Delphi a few years from 
now? I mean after the current bunch of Delphi experts 
decide that they no longer need or want to work. 
Where is the training avalailbility at universities 
or colleges? Where is the fire of a new generation of 
enthusiasts? It is almost impossible now to get basic 
training for it and the start up price of ~AU1600.00 
for delphi professional versus the AU$165.00 for VB 
will keep many people and institutions from using 
Delphi and opt for Visual Basic.

Comment by John Samperi on September 28, 02:00

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Do i understand correct that Delphi for Win32 
(not .NET) is dead and there's also no sign of 
reviving Kylix? That's a big disappointment for me... 
What i want is worthy follow ups for Delphi 7 and 
Kylix 3 without the .NET stuff.

Comment by Dr. Evil on September 28, 10:51

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

 So, we have to wait a year or so, for Highlander 
just to support .NET 2.0, which will be release in a 
month. This is ridiculous, developers using C# have 
access to .NET 2 since its very first, beta stage 
and will use it months before Delphi users.

I think it is time to move to something serious like 
VS2005, leaving Borland before it's too late.

Comment by Ted Nicols on September 28, 14:36

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Good to hear about that. I had been a Delphi developer
for long. However though my role has changed
drastically I still feel a lot attachment towards
Borland's Delphi initiatives.

The level of detail shows concrete evidence that
Delphi shall be front-runner in RAD for long.

~Shantanu

Comment by Shantanu S Chauhan [http://godisnear.blogspot.com] on September 28, 16:22

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

Hi,

I'm not amused ....

Where to the hell is CLX? What's about Kylix? What we 
need is a platform independend IDE for our 
development. 

I think, enough is enough. All the promises in past, 
all the bad quality.

We've trusted in the past Borland and switched from 
C++VisualStudio to Delphi/C++/Kylix hoping to be a 
little more independend and having more flexibility to 
fulfill our customers wishes.

I think, we will switch with our new product line to .
NET/MONO development ... WITHOUT Borland ... maybe 
CHROME is a good idea.

Disappointed regards
Christian

Comment by Christian Vogt aka PolarKreis [] on September 29, 11:33

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

For 11+ years Borland & Delphi fed me, bought my 
clothes, my cars and helped pay my rent/mortgage 
payments...  Years ago Borland WAS the best dev tool 
company that ever graced us with their presence!  
However, all good things come to an end...  It 
saddens me because I have made several friends at 
the company, most of whom are gone now.  But 
unfortunately Microsoft leap frogged Borland 
with .NET and now Borland instead of behing ahead of 
the industry is now years behind it.  With the 
announcement on the HUGE lapse of time between 2.0's 
release and Borland's support of 2.0 I think this is 
the nail in the coffin so to speak.  Danny - call me 
a doomsayer, but buddy, the writing is on the wall, 
Microsoft WILL (If they haven't already) WIN this 
one.

I've since made the switch to C#/Vs2k5 and frankly I 
don't at all miss the now-a-days standard shoddy 
quality Borland has been pushing.  Delphi 8 - 
Originally slated to come complete with Win32/.NET 
support all in one IDE.. ewups Borland slipped on 
that one!  Delphi 9 - An IDE that is as unstable as 
Delphi 4... Ewups, guess another missed one... And 
now the announcement of the length of time it's 
going to take for 2.0 support?  A HUGE miss....

I think best thing Borland has going for them at 
this point is the VCL... Perhaps a smart decision 
would be to bite the bullet, forget the idea that 
they can ever get back in front of Microsoft and 
instead jump into bed with them...  How about 
building a Delphi compiler that is a plug-in to the 
VS2k5 IDE?  Or how about a VCL library that could be 
installed into VS2k5 as an add-in?  Perhaps Borland 
could become a compiler/component vendor rather than 
an IDE/Compiler vendor? (Plus this keeps Danny 
employed! :>)

I'm not trying to hurt any ones feelings or bash and 
beat-up on Borland, but the fact of the matter is 
they have several problems that if not fixed soon 
will eventually lead to their final demise (Yes, 
I've been around long enough to know that Borland 
has been considered a sinking ship for along time 
yet they still manage to hang on.... the question is 
for how much longer?)

I'm trying to be realistic and factual.

The facts are:

1) Borland doesn't have any where NEAR the resources 
that Microsoft has for R&D.

2) Because of #1, the time to market is drastically 
longer than that of the competition making the 
products less desirable.  The software development 
industry is a rapidly moving one.... hang on (or 
even better… lead the way!) or get left in the dust!

3) Borland has lost Dale, Dale seemed to have the 
ability to get the company back in the black... I 
know nothing of the new guy, but this most certainly 
has an affect whether it's negative or positive is 
up for debate...

4) The quality of the products has gone down hill, 
and FAST!  Delphi 6 is about the last really stable 
release of Delphi that Borland published.  Debugging 
of COM objects in Delphi 7 is broken and there seems 
to be no desire to fix it...  Delphi 8 was missing 
half the functionality Borland promised, yet it was 
still the same price as a full blown release.  

I think the bottom line is this: The management team 
at Borland probably needs to be replaced.  There 
have been some absolutely LOUSY decisions in the 
past that I believe cost the company in the long run.

My final statement and it's one that I say with some 
difficult for sentimental reasons: Borland & Delphi: 
What's the point?  

Why use a product that is as far behind the curve as 
Delphi is?

I'm sorry to say it, but sentiments don't pay my 
bills and finding a Delphi job is more and more of a 
challenge.  In my opinion Delphi's once clean, easy 
to read and beautiful syntax has been decimated to 
fit with .NET.  It's unfortunate, and some (many?) 
may disagree with me, but it really feels like 
Delphi was HACKED to work with .NET :(

Sorry for the negative post, but it's what happens 
when people are honest about their experiences in 
the industry.

Have a nice day.

Eric
A once loyal Borland/Delphi BIGOT gone to the borg!

Comment by Eric on October 5, 19:36

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

 I don't use delphi for work but i'll still use it 
until is not anymore possible. Anyway there's many 
alternative coming as chrome and i understand 
professional workers who switch to vs, but if it's 
your hobby and passion there's no reasons for now. 
Delphi/Object Pascal is not equal to Borland, see the 
freepascal/lazarus alternative. Maybe go away is 
the "easy" way except for pro which don't have choice 
for keep their work. 

Comment by farcodev [http://farcolony.sourceforge.net/index_en.html] on October 8, 17:01

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

 64-compiler for 2007? .net?? i think they are doing 
things the wrong way.

What about kylix? maybe .net is the future, i don't 
know. But at this moment, i'll give a chance to 
FPC/Lazarus.

I'll stay with kylix 3/delphi 7 for my actual 
proyects, and if some proyect of the future fits 
fpc, i'll switch to it.

This roadmap is bad news for the delphi comunity in 
my opinion.

Comment by Locurasbeach on October 24, 15:01

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

.net still being regarded as higher priority than a
64-bit compiler?

This is not a good decision, in my opinion.
We need 64-bit capability *now*.

Comment by Thor Bjørne Masdal on October 26, 13:30

Delphi Roadmap - Feedback 

well now. I'm glad the roadmap shows that D.2006 will
have load up options so Win32/VCL programmers dont
have to be bloated out with .NET and other stuff
(unless they ask for it).. 

The otherwise excellent Delphi Win32/VCL product has
been damaged by Borland trying to rush in all the MS
.Net bloatware. Why do i have to pay so high a price
and sit there waiting it to load up all .Net stuff.
We, like others have good, efficient (small footprint)
comercial apps without .Net  

Ok, so perhaps Borland needs a .Net enabled product, i
may even need it one day, but do it right & not at the
expense of screwing up the product. It seems bill
gates & co are punching below the belt with .Net
release timing though.

Programs can't try to be all things to all people. You
can find a good sofa and a good bed but when can you
find a really good sofabed thats not too big, heavy,
uncomfortable and expensive?

Footnote, on the basis of the roadmap i'm sticking
with borland & pre-ordered Delphi 2006 but the proof
of pudding is in the eating as they say here in the
UK.  :) 

Comment by dean robinson [http://www.transactor.co.uk] on October 27, 17:38

Delphi Roadmap (by David I) 

 I have been a really enthusiastic Delphi developer 
since D1, but I am now migrating to C# and Microsoft 
Visual Studio 2005.

Delphi 1.0 was my first introduction to Windows 
programming, and I loved the Object Pascal language. 
One thing that always remained somthing of a 
disadvantage though, when using the Win32 API, is 
that I have never programmed in C or (Intel Assembly. 
Writing high quality code utilizing pointers, has 
always reqired full conscious effort, and often some 
revision.

Now that the foundation for Windows programming is 
changing in a huge way, I have an opportunity to 
master the language (i.e. C#) with which this 
foundation is being written (the new parts anyway). 
Although other languages can be used for WinFX/.Net 
programming, it seems clear that C# offers advantages 
that modified older languages will not. After 
observing what Borland has done (or rather, not done) 
over the past couple of years, I can only conclude 
that a WinFX compatible Object Pascal will become 
ever less mainstream, and less marketable. I live 
close to two bookstores, with large computing 
sections, and there is virtually nothing on the 
shelves on Delphi anymore. There are lots of books on 
C# related programming though! It is not enough that 
a language is compatible with Win32 or WinFX, it is 
also especially important that there are lots of 
online examples for unfamiliar coding. Undoubtedly, 
this is one area in which C# excells, and will 
continue to excell. There are numerous examples of 
Object Pascal for Win32 programming, but can any 
Delphi progammer honestly say that they expect to see 
a similar volume of Object Pascal examples for WinFX?

Another thing which concerns me is large, "do 
everything", development environments, which are too 
complex to run reliably, and so slow to produce, that 
they are already behind the technology before they 
are released. Microsoft has succeeded in leading the 
whole .Net/WinFX tools environment, because it has 
vastly more resources than Borland has at its 
disposal. Recent Delphi releases have indicated that 
Borland is struggling to cope, and product quality is 
in a nose dive. I really wish Borland hadn't gone 
down the route of "do everything" environments. It 
has resulted in them becoming so unwieldy and buggy, 
as to be almost unuseable. I for one, would like to 
see simpler, more focused, leading edge, products. I 
can't wait around for this to happen though, or even 
wait around in the hopes of hearing from Borland what 
its actual plans are. The action has moved to Visual 
Studio, and C#, and Microsoft tools are surely going 
to lead and dominate the Windows software industry 
for many years to come.

Comment by S R Knight on December 25, 23:24