October 1, 2005
Delphi is a community, Delphi is passion, Delphi is also a product: commenting Allen and Nick posts.
After the publication of the raodmap of Delphi (see my second-last post), there are been a flur of thoughts in the Delphi community. Among others, Allen Bauer in his blog post [Passionate producers = passionate consumers] and Nick Hodges in two posts [Allen makes me swoon] and [Dignity is Deadly] have covered a few relevant points. Some of the readers comments to these posts and other blog posts have provided further insight. Let me recap some of the ideas (in my own words):
- In trying to be professional to enter the high-end consulting and enterprise market, Borland has lost its barbarian attitude of the early days. This might be OK for selling ALM and Together, but not for selling Delphi to its dedicated (or should I say devoted) community.
- Delphi is not an IDE, like JBuilder. Sell the Delphi compiler with no libraries as a VS add-in, and you've killed it. Sell an IDE with a compiler with no libraries, and you've killed it. Sell IDE + libraries + compiler but loose the community (say, with buggy ALM-driven products), and you risk of killing it as well. The community is an integral prt of the Delphi experience, as I metnioned in my Why Delphi entry introducing this blog.
- Delphi is a passion, not only a business. This has been hardly understood by any Borland CEO after Philippe Kahn (which was there before the Delphi days, but shipped Delphi version -8.0, that is Turbo Pascal). And marketing rarely addressed this, with the exclusion of some recent operations like the delphi super heros... (see Jason Vokes blog).
- In a separate discussion I've had recently, I noticed how the Delphi community is getting older and older in age. Few young developers join it.
Now, what could be done about these issues? As I posted to Allen's blog:
Borland should shepard and help building this community, help the
Delphi
-related open source projects in any possible way (like you are doing with fastmm, fastcode...), keep the community gurus in the business loop (I seems to be unable even to be a formal Borland partner, these days, and that's not just me): with the last printed magazine going online only Borland needs to put effort (and money) into this!
Let me expand on this a little. It is true Borland has its BDN site, which is nice, but the amount of information published could be better if Borland had more people looking after it and more money. I remember I was involved when it started and there was a dedicated editor, a team of authors providing weekly articles, and more. Now there is handly a person of the small DevRel team for it. Too little (even the DevRel team is doing a lot with so little).
Community involvement via open source projects is now getting back with FastCode and FastMM, but many other communities have been somewhat abandoned (JEDI, to mention one). It is true that not every project is worth being pushed and some communities see a reduced anhusiams, but the involvement in an open source Delphi project is and would be a great community building tool. Another are the newsgroups, but these have always been superb in Borland's history, from the CompuServe forums (mentioning which I'm revealing my age) to the current newsgroups. Also thanks for TeamBers. I see the same community involvement in the Italian Delphi newsgroup I help running.
Another isssue, related with the age problem (but not only) is the lack of distribution of a free or entry level version of Delphi. Make it a GPL-only (all the project you build with it must be free and come with full public source) or use any other constraint (but not the silly ones, like removing a few components people can find for free), but let any developer in the world and any It student have a legal copy of Delphi for free or a very small fee, to play with and to help in open source projects. Borland is the company that was started by a crazy guy who sold a pascal compiler for 50$ , a quarter of the price of its most known competitor (Microsoft), providing a better tool. MS Pascal is now long forgotten...
Finally, the keep the gurus in the loop might seem a self-interesting recommandation and it is indeed. If it wasn't for the passion me and most other Delphi gurus would have moved elsewhere. I've started training on Delphi a few months after it was released, and I've never been able to be a formal Borland training partner: but Cary Jensen or Bob Swart (just to mention two others) are in a similar situation. Is Borland making money with its Delphi training program? I really doubt. If they are not making money, why they keep stumping on the feet of their best friends? This is a mistery I'll never fully understand.
Now the Delphi Magazine is becoming an online publishtion, the last two versions of Delphi have seen a book each in the US market... I'd be worried and would try to invert this trend. Now that we need more printed material. Online is equally OK. But the problem is that if I browse the last (still on paper) issue of the Delphi Magazine I see no (zero, zilch, nada) Borland ad! And this is the only printed Delphi magazine left in the world, AFAIK! I have 3,000 pages of Delphi material I'm sitting on: If BDN makes me a good offer they'll probably use a yearly budget!
Well, you can see from this post. I'm getting passionate as well... it is a passion for Delphi and for its community, in which I have countless friends. We live in a Delphi world!
posted by
marcocantu @ 0:30AM | 25 Comments
[0 Pending]
25 Comments
JEDI abandonned? Not quite.
Hi.
Just a few words to say that the JEDI project is not
abandonned, definitely not. Sure, some parts of it are
not actively developped, but the JCL and JVCL do
regular releases and one is scheduled in the next few
weeks.
Just to correct this point, I agree with the rest of
the entry.
Comment by Olivier Sannier
[http://jvcl.sf.net/]
on October 1, 00:57
JEDI abandoned
What I meant is that I got the impression that
projects like JEDI have been abandoned by Borland...
not by their own community. [I do use JCL, in
particular.] I help the InstantObjects group and there
is no connection with Borland whatsoever. I think
Borland should help more (with visibility, integration
help, conference presentations, BDN articles, web
hosting, and the like -- I mean, not directly with
money but in many other ways).
Comment by Marco Cantù
[http://www.marcocantu.com]
on October 1, 01:05
Borland Marketing
< But the problem is that if I browse the last
(still on paper) issue of the Delphi Magazine I see
no (zero, zilch, nada) Borland ad! And this is the
only printed Delphi magazine left in the world,
AFAIK! >
When I read this statement the first thought I had
was "Why try buying ad space in a delphi magazine?"
Seriously, if you are reading a delphi magazine then
you probably have Delphi already. Borland should
place more ads in other more mainstream publications.
Then I thought the opposite. Of course, they need to
buy ad space in delphi magazines because that is
where their market is; with current delphi
developers.
-- Robert
Comment by Robert Kozak
[http://www.dealerdesktop.com]
on October 1, 01:10
Delphi Passion
>>Let me recap some of the ideas (in my own words):
you missed the fact that there are two versions
of "Delphi for .NET", one of them abandoned (Delphi
8), and the other one slowly getting fixed with
unnoficial updates, so it's going to take 3 versions
of Delphi to get .NET 1.1 right?
who can afford that?
who will trust Borland that Dexter will actually be
usable as an IDE?
how many companies that bought Delphi 8 also bought
Delphi 2005? and how many companies that bought
Delphi 2005 will buy Dexter?... I know the one I work
for won't, and that was a couple hundred licenses,
and I have no choice but to move on with Visual
Studio =o(
Comment by BlackTigerX
[http://ebersys.blogspot.com]
on October 1, 01:31
Delphi Passion
Couldn't have said it better myself, Marco. You have
analysed the exact problem with Borland's attitude
toward Delphi since somewhere after the the
Delphi2/Delphi3 timeframe about the time Java and
JBuilder hit the scene.
Kudos
Comment by Mark Andrews on October 1, 01:42
Delphi Passion
<And this is the only printed Delphi magazine left in
the world, AFAIK!>
Well, we have Clube Delphi in Brazil, and I'm a
subscriber of it
http://www.devmedia.com.br/clubedelphi/
Regards,
Marco Sangali
Comment by Marco Sangali
[]
on October 1, 02:16
Delphi Passion
<i>In a separate discussion I've had recently, I
noticed how the Delphi community is getting older
and older in age. Few young developers join it.</i>
This was exactly my point about a month ago. We are
like dinosaurs... we are still here but our time is
passing... with no new people... well... we will be
gone very soon... as well as there will be no use
for passion...
Comment by Serge on October 1, 02:27
Delphi Passion
Hi Marco,
I think you hit the nail on the head with this
statement, "Another isssue, related with the age
problem (but not only) is the lack of distribution of
a free or entry level version of Delphi.". Just today
I had a conversation with a colleague who was
interested in learning Delphi, but mentioned how
costly it is to get into it. His response, 'I'll go
dig out my VS'. The pricing structure is not designed
to lure in those curious folks, rather retain the
current following. Offering educational and low
priced versions would be beneficial for those curious
folks. Also a marketing planned towards the
educational institutes would benefit. Marketing
should also hit one critical area: Educational
Institutes. If they could get colleges or high schools
to teach Delphi (like they do C, Java, HTML , etc..)
the user base and following would grow significantly.
M$ 'gives' copies of development software away to
college students via student licensing. Just another
2 cents...
Comment by Brad Prendergast
[http://www.bpsoftware.com]
on October 1, 04:01
Delphi Passion
It has taken Borland months, perhaps years to finally
fix bugs as documented in Quality Central. It has
taken a similar amount of time for the company to
really document developers concerns with having a back
and forth b------- contest over an obviously buggy
product. It is my hope that they get the message as
documented in your writing. I hope that they further
address and take action on the issues that you have
identified within a very reasonable period of time.
How long is reasonable. In Borland's Delphi case it
is yesterday. I hope that Dexter fixes many of the
problems, but I will not trust that this is a good
product until I have test driven a free version of it
for myself. Due to my past history with Borland's
product, Delphi is no longer entitled to the automatic
purchase/upgrade.
Comment by D-Fan - R Coyle on October 1, 06:04
Printed Delphi magazines
>>And this is the only printed Delphi magazine left in
the world
In Brazil we still have ClubeDelphi Magazine
http://www.devmedia.com.br/clubedelphi/
and Active Delphi magazine
http://www.activedelphi.com.br/
Comment by Rod
[]
on October 1, 07:21
Delphi Passion
I second the motion of entry level full-strengh
releases, but also they could be simply free old
discontinued products, like Delphi 3 or Delphi 5, just
like the JBuilder Foundation X.
And you're so right about the ages! I've still a bunch
of disks with my TP3/CPM projects :)
Comment by Luis C.M. on October 1, 10:24
Delphi Passion
I know about the Brazilian Delphi magazine, I meant
"English-language magazine", but forgot to write it
down. I've been told that the Brasilian market (like
the German one) have also seen a few Delphi books
recently.
Also, thanks for the many comments. For those who've
lost faith in Delphi, I do understand you, but I don't
think all is lost. I think Borland still has a chance
or two.
Comment by Marco Cantù
[http://www.marcocantu.com]
on October 1, 15:02
Delphi Passion
I saw mentioned Brazil and Germany - Russia and other
Ex-USSR countries should not be forgotton. While
often not very well documented - there are many
excellent Russian components. And - not to forget
www.torry.net and www.delphiplus.org - the last one
should also be interesting to follow for non-russians
as the links are interesting. To quote a russian
programmer: "Perhaps FreePascal should be considered,
now that Delphi has become the monster".
In Russia it also seems that younger developers join.
Best regards from Non-russian...
Comment by Plus Russians...
[http://www.delphiplus.org]
on October 2, 18:32
Borland is helping ;-)
Just to follow up on this "borland abandonned open
source projects":
Borland is providing the hosting and bandwidth for
many JEDI projects (if not all). We also have contacts
with some "Borlanders", even if they are scarce as we
rarely need their direct help.
Finally, even though there haven't been any "JEDI"
session at any Borcon in the past, it may happen in
the future (well, not in Brazil, it got refused).
So in the end, they do help, but as many other
companies, it's not said publicly much.
Comment by Olivier Sannier
[http://homepages.borland.com/jedi/jvcl]
on October 3, 17:40
Delphi Passion
I just re-read your post and have an additional
comment. You mentioned that the original TP compiler
was $50.00; I bought TP 3.01A for $39.95 retail. This
was the MOST expensive product Borland sold at the
time! For $39.95 you got a very capable product, not
some stripped down version that had restrictions on usage.
Borland needs to release a real, functional Delphi
product with NO Restrictions for $99.95 that ANYONE
can purchase.
Comment by Mark Andrews on October 3, 23:49
Delphi Passion
I totally agree with your posting Marco. My nephew is
starting to get interested in programming and although
I would like to think that he would like Delphi, the
fact is that he would be so far out of the mainstream
as to really limit his job prospects. His school is
teaching Java. Oh well.
In addition, as one of 2 delphi programmers at my
company (the other 6 are VB6 soon to be VB.NET), my
colleague and I have concluded that although our Win32
apps will remain in Deplhi for now, any new
development will be in C# and done using the VS IDE.
It's a shame that Borland has failed to capture the
enthusiasm of the evolving market. They just don't
stand out like they used to.
I wish Borland well and have really enjoyed working in
Delphi, but I need to keep my job and that means
transitioning to C# and .NET.
Comment by Charles Hodgkins on October 4, 00:31
Delphi Passion
The price point is, in my opinion, a huge issue. If
the current Delphi pricing was in place back in
'97-ish, when I abandoned VB and bought the $100
Standard edition of the latest Delphi version, I never
would've given it a look. There's no way a student,
hobbyist or beginning shareware developer is going to
spend $1000 for a programming tool where there are
numerous free options and $100 versions of Visual
C#/C++/VB available. I'm about to abandon Delphi for
C# in my own projects and I'm working in a growing
5-programmer shop that's taking a very serious look at
C#, and it's all about the cost. Clearly my employer
and I are not the kind of customer that Borland wants.
Comment by Diragor on October 4, 02:39
Delphi Passion - New blood
I just wanted to say that there are still young
programmers who share the Delphi Passion, I am one of
them(I'm 23 years old).
I got to know Delphi with a free version of Delphi 5
included with a UK magazine. Then I used Delphi 7
during my higher education. And now I'm working at a
company that uses Delphi 5 and 7. It's awesome to
work in Delphi again after 2 years of Visual C++!!
Comment by Bert [Otherside] Derijckere on October 4, 14:05
Delphi Passion
YES
Comment by Ed on October 4, 15:51
Delphi Passion
I think you are right about the old age of delphi
programmers...I'm a 20 year old delphi programmer
from Portugal, but i don't see my colleagues
programming with delphi, they use Visual C++, C# or
JAVA. Why? Because that's what is teatched at
colleges and universities...Borland should invest in
distributing a "Student Delphi Version" in a way
that it brings more programmers to this language,
and make universities invest in this programming
language.Also they should not kill Borland Kylix
because with some improvements it could become the
best programming tool for linux, and once that
Macintosh computers will be moving to intel
processors, they should start working on making
delphi compiling for it.
At last, i just want to say, that i bought recently
your Book ("Mastering Delphi 2005"), i'm reading it
by now, and let me say for now i'm liking it very
much. Keep the good work :)
Comment by Jóni Duarte Silva
[joni.duarte.silva@gmail.com]
on October 7, 18:46
Delphi Passion
In terms of Delphi programmers' age, I'm 27 and I've
been using Delphi since D2.
I work for a company that uses mostly MS products
(VB6, etc). After complaining for months about the
shortcomings of these development tools, I finally
pursuaded them to purchase Delphi (albeit version 7).
We're gradually moving to developing all our new
projects in Delphi, cutting development times and
increasing the functionality delivered!
Comment by Danie Loots
[]
on October 25, 17:04
Delphi Passion
Greetings Marco,
I just wanted to write and let you know that this is
by far one of the best articles I've read recently
regarding delphi. While I utilize some of the newer
languages; there is a special place in my heart for
delphi.
One of the things that I believe hurts delphi
propogation in the US is the lack of 'updated'
content sites. Granted, there is Torry and DSP.
But some of the mega sites don't have english
translations. Another issue that hurts is the
confusion that borland/devco promotes
regarding .net/vcl.net/and vcl.
Granted, while it is relatively "clear" which to use
when, there is a large lack of 3rd party controls
that support vcl.net and vcl. There are a "few"
such as TMS and LMD that are on the band-wagon; but
the more widely adopted such as Raize and Devexpress
have little to no vcl.net support (devexpress has
little with raize having none).
There are some little known shinging stars out there
like fastcode/fastmm but there is almost no
documentation out there to support them. Granted
intermediate to advanced delphi developers can make
use of them easily but people are used to project
documentation like the apache(jakarta) foundation
provides and the lack of that either deters or just
plain scares away new developers.
I dont want to sound like I'm griping; these are
just some the holes that one developer sees. One
suggestion I can make for Borland/Devco would be to
start subsidizing some of this work (but not lose
their remaining cash either). With an upgrade/new
purchase including a year subscription to Delphi
magazine (it is the last one left) and/or a year to
delphi3000.
Comment by Michael in az on May 3, 18:38
Delphi Passion
That's a good article. I'm a 24 year old Delphi
programmer. I definitely agree with the article.
Borland is lucky that there is such a dedicated
community of Delphi programmers when they've really
spent no time developing that community at all. As
you mentioned, they've virtually abandoned many of the
best avenues to help the community (which in turn will
definitely help them)
Now, I'm fairly new to Delphi, I've only been using it
for a year, but I am definitely hooked. Sure I'll do
a thing or two in C++, but that's only related to
getting a computer science degree. Delphi's
definitely my main language, so I must echo my concern
that if Borland dosen't get their act together, Delphi
may atrophy into obscurity. Really, this community is
the only thing keeping Delphi alive. If Borland
dosen't recognize this and start investing in it, the
community will slowly drift away. I guess we'll just
have to wait and see.
Comment by Jeff Quindlen
[http://techheadaches.blogspot.com]
on July 4, 21:58
Delphi Passion
I've been using Delphi (first 3, but now 7) for a
number of years. It's the only language I know - and
obviously I like it. Can you tell me if my
applications will run on the newer Windows coming
out later this year? If I have to upgrade, where
should I go? Delphi 2006? If I upgrade to D2006,
will I have to re-write, or will my code upgrade to
the higher version?
Comment by Colin on September 5, 17:23
Delphi 2007 and the future of programming jobs that uses delphi
So what is the future of Borland/Delphi. I was a
long time Delphi developer from 1997-2002. Then I had
to switch to Java/C#. Delphi is a great language and
IDE, but what scare alot of youngsters is the Lack of
Jobs that uses Delphi. Sure you'll learn all about
coding, but what happens to you getting a job and
making a living?
Do a search on monster/dice for delphi jobs! you will
not see an update for 500 opened posts. Do the sames
for java/.net and you will get loads of hits.
I believe that this is due to borland bad marketing
strategy. I love delphi and wanna get back to it, but
I won't be able to pay the bills at home as no body
uses delphi for enterprise application:-)
Comment by James Houston on May 15, 21:32
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