June 25, 2008
A Delphi one-time user, Branden Tanga, blogs about RAD Studio annoyances... without really getting Delphi!
A Delphi one-time user, Branden Tanga, blogs about RAD Studio annoyances... without really getting Delphi! I understand he has limited experience with the product but his negative impressions are only partially based on facts. Read his blog post first... keep reading it... now if you are done, see my counter-points below:
- "hitting the tab key with one word selected doesn't indent it", as we in Delphi use Ctrl+I, but Delphi has multiple editor bindings, maybe there is also one doing what he asks, I don't know... maybe he has a point here
- "frames that make up the MDI interface of RAD are all undocked frames that make up the MDI interface of RAD are all undocked, I've never seen this, although applying the proper setting is is one click away
- "If you launch your application from within RAD, it must be managed within RAD", is a positive feature for me. If you are debugging, you stop an app in the debugger rather than using Task Manager, imho.
- "You have to pay 3rd parties for extra widgets" unless you use the hundreds of free and open source VCL controls, come on. As he sais, Delphi can use the Windows API, so you don't need to get extra components, although you might find it easier...
- "There is no free version of CodeGear RAD"... unless you consider the Turbos, which are still partially available, and don't consider that unlike Microsoft, CodeGear should make some money on its tools. If the idea is "I don't want to pay", that's fine... but I won't consider it an annoyance!
- "There is absolutely no way to write Delphi code for free." Well, same as above... although partially incorrect as there are other Object Pascal compilers out there.
- "There are properties and objects that are COMPLETELY HIDDEN from the developer, and the only way to access them is through RAD's wysiwyg editor." This is an absolute nonsense. It is factually wrong. Everything you can do in the form designer, you can do in code.
There are many things in Delphi that are far from great, but this easy bashing with little or no foundation and quite a few factual errors really upsets me!
posted by
marcocantu @ 7:48PM | 18 Comments
[0 Pending]
18 Comments
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Those errors upsets me too! >:-(
I'm writing a comment with a link to your post Marco,
I hope you agree.
Uh, why didn't you commented on his blog?
And finally: good shot for Mr. Tanga to have been
mentioned on your blog! Maybe this was his real
intention... ;-)
Comment by Sergio Pappalardo
[http://www.silvercybertech.com/]
on June 25, 20:39
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
My annoyance with Mr Tanga is that he doesn't know
diddly about Delphi. He condemned his own blog
writing such rubbish anyway.
Comment by Daniel on June 25, 20:57
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
If he was a smart guy it shouldn't wrote that article...
Just another MS fanboy :))
Comment by Andrew on June 25, 21:16
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
1. True, but can be fixed with KeyBindings. The free
DDevExtensions plugin does this automatically.
2. True, but workaround is very easy.
3. True. Delphi can't handle external termination of
your app. I share this annoyance.
4. False. VS lacks widgets too. Paying money is pretty
much the idea behind 3rd party. Some Delphi/Win32
controls are free and most are cheaper than .NET controls.
5. False. TurboDelphi is an excellent free version.
6. False. For the free stuff: Try notepad with
FreePascal. For the WYSIWYG integration: If you
compare this VS/.NET concept with Delphi, you might
even think that the concept is copied from Delphi.
The advice not to use Delphi seems to be supported by
minor annoyances only. I had those annoyances when I
first started with VS2003/.NET 1.1. Please do not let
minor annoyances trip you up.
Comment by JonnyWee on June 25, 22:16
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Yes, main complaints of an inexperiences, and
apparently inflexible user.
There are many older versions of Delphi available for
free (CodeGear can make whatever license claims they
want about it having to be bought from ONLY them, but
I have serious doubts about the legal enforcabilty of
that clause, and the implications that they would
turn away new developers needing help just because
they bought a second hand version instead of trying
to convert them into potential long term customers is
just absurd)
That said, the last point actually has some
validity. From the X,Y location of TComponents (less
likely to be what he is talking about) to the Row and
Column properties of controls in hosted in a
TGridPanel (annoying), there are indeed "magic"
properties that you can only get to from the form
designer.
Actually, digging through the source to TGridPanel,
you might almost be able to control the components
grid locations programatically, but the design is so
incredibly bad that any attempt is more likely to end
in frustation and failure. (A great idea, and a neat
trick, but a seriously ugly implemention)
Comment by Xepol on June 25, 22:19
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Marco,
I just checked this guy's blog... never found any
comments. Probably he's writing crap?
So let him continue writing... crap.
Levend.
Comment by evend on June 25, 22:56
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Hear, hear. I totally agree. I must defend him a bit,
because I shared a couple of thoughts when I first
started working with Delphi. But your points are
right on the spot. He should hang in there just a
little bit more.
I tried to tell him through comments in his own blog,
but for some reason my comments weren't accepted. Oh
well, he'll find his way here i think.
Comment by Bart Roozendaal
[http://sevensteps.blogspot.com]
on June 25, 23:17
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Not-with-standing that yes, a lot of his complaints
can seemingly be fixed by playing with RAD Studio
settings, the fact that this would presumably be
non-obvious and require a level of knowledge of the
product not readily obtained simply by using
it/reading the docs does itself provide valid grounds
for complaint.
(or equally indeed that the initial experience is so
disappointing that one is not inclined to persevere
and FIND the relevant options)
On the specific point of "Free" versions of RAD
Studio, it is a little disingenuous to point to the
Turbos as free versions of the product seeing as how
they are NOT free versions of the CURRENT product.
In fact strictly speaking they are free versions of a
completely different product (single language,
personalities of superceded language/VCL versions).
And a product line (Turbo's) that, the last we heard
from the horses mouth, were discontinued. Certainly a
product line who's future is not clear.
Also I suggest that the complainer was thinking, in
terms of "freeness" along the lines of the free
availability of a command line compiler - something
that is increasingly typical in this market: pay for
the IDE, but compile for free to your hearts content
if you're happy to cut your code in Notepad.
i.e.
You criticise the complaint on the basis that yes,
indeed, anything you can do in the IDE you can ALSO do
in code in Delphi just as with other languages.
BUT you miss the point that in order to then COMPILE
your code (i.e. have any meaningful and useful result
from your code) you HAVE to BUY the IDE, since you
can't get an IDE-less compiler for free.
By all means be critical of other peoples criticism,
as long as you first have understood WHAT they are
criticising.
Comment by Jolyon Smith
[http://www.deltics.co.nz]
on June 26, 00:03
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
I have posted a comment on his blog but I guess it
will not be published...
To sum up, only point 3 is relevant...
The rest is FUD
Comment by Stephane Wierzbicki on June 26, 00:29
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
I'd say that point #1 is also relevant. To me,
expected behavior for most users is that selecting a
block of text and pressing TAB will indent it (as will
SHIFT+TAB 'undent' it). It took me some getting used
to using CTRL+SHIFT+I. That is until today when
another commenter mentioned that DDevExtensions
renders this irrelevant. Besides Delphi, I use
Notepad++ for quickly viewing source code and it
supports this TAB indent binding.
It's an issue of preference, but one I can understand.
However most of his other points are a result of poor
"research". Did anyone else notice that the tagline on
his blog is:
"Publishing this content is meant to force me to
research new technologies and the ways to implement
them, and thus forcing me to grow as a person, and as
a developer."
Except by "research new technologies" he means open
them up and see if they act like Visual Studio and C#.
I posted a comment on his blog as well, but it has yet
to show up.
Comment by Mick on June 26, 02:27
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Wow, I really seem to have struck a nerve eh? It doesn't really bother
me if people read or don't read my blog. As some of the commenters
have said, I have zero comments on anything, which is perfectly fine
with me. On the flipside of this, this is the first time I have ever
commented on anyone else's blog. *shrug* first time for everything I
guess.
To those who have at least attempted to educate me, I thank you. I'll
read the links you sent, hopefully that will mitigate some of my
annoyances with Delphi.
To those who just called my post crap.... if expressing your e-rage
helps you, do whatever you feel you need to do.
While it doesn't bother me if no one reads my blog, I *did* post it
online where anyone can read it, so fair is fair, anyone should be able
to comment on it. I originally had moderate comments on and I didn't
get to them quickly - my apologies. If your comment isn't up there,
that means I missed it, comment again and I'll catch it this time.
While I now understand that some of my post isn't true (from reading
the comments), I stand by my assertion that Delphi is annoying.
However, I will at least attempt to learn otherwise.
Comment by Branden Tanga
[http://www.beigehat.com]
on June 26, 05:58
Annoying User do not understand Delphi's life
"hitting the tab key with one word selected doesn't
indent it"
FACTS:
1) a TAB is a character, not a command
2) a selected word will be overriden by input of any
character
CONCLUSION:
hitting the tab key with one word selected MUST
override it.
QED
Comment by Loïs Bégué
[http://www.arpoon.de]
on June 26, 10:47
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Just as a side note for all "I want everything for
free" guys (and who don't like the free Turbo Delphi
for what ever reason):
There is FreePascal (www.freepascal.org), which is
highly compatible to the Delphi Language (Delphi's
Pascal variant). There are also various projects which
can explicitly be built on either Delphi or FPC (such
as www.indyproject.org)
They even have "Lazarus" which is - well - a Delphi
IDE clone, including all the bits and bytes you need
to make that possible. www.lazarus.freepascal.org
In fact Lazarus offers a bit more than Delphi does: it
runs even on the Mac ...
I am not an FPC/Lazarus user - as I own several Delphi
/ RAD Studio editions, but I know many Delphi users
who work on both fronts.
Comment by Olaf Monien
[http://blogs.atozed.com/olaf]
on June 26, 11:47
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
>>While I now understand that some of my post isn't
true (from reading the comments), I stand by my
assertion that Delphi is annoying. <<
- Tell the Linux guys who use the VI-editor to 'get
with the times' as it doesn't look like Word at all.
- There is no free version of Office 2007 either, so
how does this match with your statement on a free Rad
Studio?
- If there is no way to write Delphi code for free,
my question then is whether you got WinXP or Vista
for free? Or any of the serious MS tools? Did you get
your computer for free as well?
- Yes, one can use notepad to write C# code and
compile it with a free version. At what speed and
with which knowledge? Like you said 'get with the
times'.
>>Don't use it if you don't have to<<
Of course you're entitled to have an opinion on a
topic - that is called freedom of speech. But bashing
a product you hardly know and still standing by your
poor opinion after the reactions on your blog...
Good luck, poor Mr Tanga!
Comment by Daniel on June 26, 12:28
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
While most of Branden's post was factually incorrect,
there is a valid point in that the current help system
is still missing too much. If you are new to Delphi,
there is no way to know what the keyboard mappings are
for the block commands. You can't even tell what the
complete list of block commands is. On my blog, I had
pretty much had the same comments as everyone else here.
Comment by Chris Miller
[http://anotherlab.rajapet.net]
on June 26, 21:09
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Branden Tanga wrote:
> While I now understand that some of my post isn't
true (from reading
the comments), I stand by my assertion that Delphi is
annoying.
However, I will at least attempt to learn otherwise.
Branden, I have a humble request. Please evaluate
Delphi for 1 month. Install the open-source (and high
quality) JCL and JVCL components. Follow Nick Hodge's
"30 demos in 30 days" and then post a follow-up
review:
http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/index.php?p=26687
The 30 demos in 30 days will acclimate you to the
Object-Pascal language and the Delphi IDE much more
quickly than experimenting on your own. I know it
helped me a great deal.
I know there are some that are bashing your post, but
I think that if you did a bit more research, you'd be
able to provide a more insightful review. Delphi is
not perfect, but I believe it is the most productive
RAD tool on the market today.
Either way, I'd love to hear your review after 30 days
of use (and after going through the 30 demos in 30 days).
Comment by Mick on June 26, 21:40
Terminating a Debugged application outside Delphi
Actually, you can terminate a application you are
debugging outside Delphi with Task Manager, TaskKill
(a command line tool which comes with XP) or even
Process Explorer (Which is available from SysInternals
via Microsoft's web site.)
I know that that used to be the case, but that
certainly appears to not be the case on the machines I
use today. Not sure if it is Delphi 2007 that
changed, or XP.
Comment by Jim McKeeth
[http://www.DavinciUnltd.com]
on June 27, 02:37
User Finds Delphi Annoyances
Well, he probably is a newb (or even a n00b :p) at
[windows] programming, but that isnt a reason to
flood his blog with this link. I'd say he actually
hit a nerve :-)
Comment by Name: on August 7, 17:14
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