October 6, 2008

SDN: Nick Refers to Delphi Prism

As the SDN conference in the Netherlands, Delphi product manager Nick Hodges made a public reference to a new project, Delphi Prism

As the SDN conference in the Netherlands, Delphi product manager Nick Hodges made reference (the word announce I used earlier is not appropriate here... as there was no formal announcement) to a new product, Delphi Prism.

  • This will be a completely separate product, it will be a plug-in to visual studio, using the Visual Studio Shell
  • The separate product will be the .NET portion of RAD Studio 2009
  • It will be an all new, next generation .NET solution for Delphi with full support for the .NET framework 3.5
    (WinForms, WFP, Silverlight, ASP.NET, WCF, LINQ)
  • CodeGear will provide Datasnap 2009 integration and dbExpress for ADO.NET support
  • Will be sold only with maintanance
  • Will be available before the end of the year

Update

I'm sorry to have used the wrong term "announces" as this has stirred some controversy. As Bob and Nick clarified in their comments, and I fully agree with, this was not a formal product announcement. Nick did mention, at the end of his product address (which included an updated Delphi Win32 Roadmap), what is the current plan for Delphi .NET... so he announced a plan, not a product.





 

34 Comments

SDN Nick Announces Delphi Prism 

it is a very, very ....... good new.

 
Comment by vicente on October 6, 12:36

SDN Nick Announces Delphi Prism 

Let us all guess how much effort will be going into 
the .NET product (Prism) and how much effort will be 
left for the Win32. That will be very hard decisions 
to make. Do we go full gear on the Prims-product to 
give it all chances to succeed? How much resources 
will must be allocated to the other products (Win32, 
PHP, AS400) to let those not die out? I only hope 
that my previous prediction 
(http://blogs.sevensteps.com/2008/05/embarcadero-youd-
better-keep.html) doesn't come true...

Codegear will have a real tough cookie on their hands 
now to fight MS on their own turf. The Delphi.Net 
implementation better be very, very good and very, 
very successfull. Good luck to them; I don't think 
this will be easy...
Comment by Bart Roozendaal [http://blogs.sevensteps.com] on October 6, 13:17

SDN Nick Announces Delphi Prism 

Hopefully now we can get the .NET roadmap also...

NOTE: I mentioned your blog here:
https://forums.codegear.com/thread.jspa?threadID=4350&tstart=0
 
Comment by El Cy on October 6, 13:37

SDN Nick Announces Delphi Prism 

So the rumours hold true, but was anything said about
the future of Delphi.NET as in BDS/VCL.NET based
Delphi.NET?

Is this another product in the Delphi.NET stable, or a
different direction for Delphi.NET ?
Comment by Marco van de Voort [http://www.nldelphi.com] on October 6, 13:55

SDN Nick Announces Delphi Prism 

Nick didn't really announce Delphi Prism, but more 
disclosed the project. CodeGear will be at PDC at the 
end of this month, and he said they would announce it 
at that time, not today ;-)

Delphi Prism was still said to be shipping this 
year...
Comment by Bob Swart [http://www.bobswart.nl/blog] on October 6, 14:24

Delphi Prism under VS: Good News! 

Delphi as Visual Studio plug-in = Good News both for 
developers and the companies!

Good for Developers because they now get a focused and 
coherent .NET enviroment.

Good for Embarcadero because they now have a solid and 
viable platform to offer Delphi developers.

Good for Microsoft because the Delphi developers now 
may find it less of a risk to move to .NET where 
appropriate.

Delphi PRISM sounds about right if it indeed supports 
the PRISM app.lib.
Comment by Lars Fosdal [http://delphi.fosdal.com] on October 6, 14:39

SDN Nick Announces Delphi Prism 

Just to be clear, I didn't "announce" anything.  ;-)

Nick 
Comment by Nick Hodges [http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges] on October 6, 14:39

SDN Nick Announces Delphi Prism 

 I'm glad it's going to be separate. I'm not ever 
going to do anything with .Net, so good riddance.
Comment by Steve Moran [http://www.objecttree.com] on October 6, 14:40

@Nick: so there are just some rumors ... anyway some gooood ones 

@Nick - "Just to be clear, I didn't "announce"
anything"   
OK, so there are just some rumors ... anyway some
gooood ones :)

Hopefully now you will keep your promise (I know
you'll say that you made no promise :) ...) and
"announce" the .NET roadmap, now that Delphi future's
is looking quite bright ! 

CogeGear(ers), I congrat you (all) for such a good job
! ... This is just be another proof that CG is listening !
Comment by El Cy on October 6, 16:09

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

I read in Bob's blog there will be no CF.net support 
(designers). At this moment this means I'm forced to 
move to C# for CF development. :-((
Comment by TDaniel on October 6, 16:21

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

CF.NET development will be definitely supported but
not the CF.NET designers since these are bound to C# &
VB.NET (bad code ... or just the MS need to be "in
charge" with mobile devel ?!). 

So the problem is not with CG here but with MS way of
exposing the CF.NET designers to "outside" languages.
Maybe this will change in next VS ... so Delphi Prism
will benefit also (as now in the .NET client arena). 
Comment by @TDaniel: CF.NET on October 6, 16:29

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

 >> I read in Bob's blog there will be no CF.net 
support 
(designers). 


AGAIN ??    -.-
Comment by Mauro Italy on October 6, 16:38

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

Is this Oxygene ?
If it is, I hope the price will stay about the same as
it is now. "Only sold with maintenance" sounds like a
threat to me.
Comment by delphirocks on October 6, 17:36

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

I wonder who would pay for such a tool. You bought 
VS. You already have whatever you need to develop 
under .NET. Why should you pay again for "Prims" 
instead of, say, some good C# libraries? Just because 
it's Pascal and you're too old to learn another 
language? Because of dbExpress and Datasnap? LOL!
The only reasonable scenario I can think of is you 
decided to move to VS and C#, and you can't rewrite 
all the code at once - it looks CodeGear is still 
happy to bring water to the MS mill - they are still 
falling blindly in any trap MS put on the road of 
Windows development.
Comment by Luigi D. Sandon on October 6, 18:31

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

@Luigi:

I've been playing around with Oxygene for a couple
days now and I have to say it rocks.

Bigger C#/VB codebases tend to get messy. Oxygene code
looks way cleaner than C# or VB.NET, thanks to its
separation of interface and implementation. 
That alone would be a good reason to buy it (if the
prices stays where it is right now).







Comment by delphirocks on October 6, 19:51

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

While I think it's a good news for both native Delphi 
and managed Delphi...

I just wondering...

Kylix was "kylixed" several years ago, but ever today 
some developers ask to revive it.

So where all these guys, who used (and still use?) 
"old" Delphi.NET and VCL.NET which gonna be 
"kylixed"? Why they don't cry about their favourite 
tool? Or Borland just spent resources for a product 
which was used by few developers? (May be aside from 
ASP.NET development).
Comment by Kryvich [] on October 6, 23:26

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

This is inline with what Nick said when I interviewed
him back on August 25th:

http://www.delphi.org/2008/08/episode-2-nick-hodges/

The Visual Studio plug-in and name are new, but the
rest was already reviled.  
Comment by Jim McKeeth [http://www.Delphi.org] on October 7, 01:03

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

So can we expect a new BDS totally written in native 
code? 

codegear, please remove the .net code from the IDE 
since we dont need that anymore!!!
Comment by ahmoy on October 7, 06:47

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

The very last thing we need, is a VS based Delphi.NET.
Because it will open the door for an Eclipse based
Delphi Win32. *brrrr*
Comment by Roman on October 7, 12:41

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

I can't wait to get out of software development and 
forget about all this. But meanwhile, we appear to be 
going round and round in ever-decreasing circles, 
which can have only one outcome. Yes, you got it. 
Vanishing up there. The Microsoft bubble cannot be 
far from popping, especially given the world 
situation. Who's going to keep paying into their 
protection racket, when you can get everything free?
Comment by Steve Moran [http://www.objecttree.com] on October 7, 13:58

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

So for CF.NET designer support using Delphi, I'm 
forced to use RemObjects Oxygene? Thanks a lot, 
CodeGear!
Comment by Paul Morey [http://www.givenhansco.com] on October 7, 16:15

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

 "Because it will open the door for an Eclipse based
Delphi Win32. *brrrr*"

That might not be bad, if it allows us to dump MS
desktop operating systems and use Linux or Mac.

Currently I run XP SP3 in a VM (virtualbox)on 64bit
Ubuntu 8.04 and the only thing installed in the VM is
Delphi.....  All my other needs are easily handled by
Ubuntu.

So a Eclipse based delphi might be a good thing if it
runs on other platforms and allows cross compiling to
Linux,Mac OSX, and win32/64
Comment by on October 7, 19:23

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

 Jim McKeeth might have meant to say "revealed" 
instead of "reviled".  :-)

W
Comment by Warren on October 7, 19:34

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

 Naw, I think Jim was right on with "reviled" - except
it just seems to confirm that BorPrise liked the look
of VS.NET.  For those of us who really like the
undocked designers, this is just one more indication
that the VS.NET IDE is viewed as superior by the only
real commercial IDE competitor out there.

I know the Galileo architect swears he started out
designing Galileo without ever seeing VS.NET, but it
just feels like moving to Microsoft by inches.  Why'd
we put up with defending and justifying our choice of
using Delphi all these years instead of VB when we're
just being moved over that way anyway?

Harrumph. <g>
Comment by Brion on October 7, 21:05

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

@Warren: You are correct.  Jim McKeeth frequently
spells things incorrectly.  I believe that is a
favorite of his.
Comment by Jim McKeeth [http://www.Delphi.org] on October 7, 21:14

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

Hmm, so if we want to continue with .net development 
as well as native, I wonder if this mean we have to 
buy a visual studio licence in addition to Rad studio 
and Prism ? Even if the VS2008 IDE is bundled like 
Oxygene, I wonder if the 'new product' approach means 
there will still be something extra to buy.

(keeps fingers crossed that it will be included as 
part of the Rad studio maintenance) 
Comment by Graham Kennedy on October 7, 23:44

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

Ten bucks says this is essentially RemObject's Oxygene
re-packaged and slightly modified to integrate w/other
CG/E stuff more smoothly.  

More info on Oxygene here: 
http://www.remobjects.com/product/oxygene

Keep in mind, their Hydra product allows Win32 / .NET
cross-pollination as well.
Comment by Cass McNutt [http://www.ThoughtsOnThinking.com] on October 8, 20:01

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

Nick Hodges "leaking" of the Delphi Prism for .Net
without disclosing a roadmap I consider a very
dangerous thing down the road as it create a lot of
FUD and rumors specially on actual users of VCL.NET.
Comment by Fabricio on October 8, 20:21

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

 once upon a time, this conference (to the max) was
about speakers, with some time for vendor exhibits.
These days, you have to pay money to hear this kind of
"plans" ??

Even your (interesting as always) talks could not
motivate me to attend this years conference.
Comment by Old_SD(G)N_FAN on October 8, 22:49

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

Not that I know much more, so I though of not
commenting any further... but some of the posts
require some notes. Here they go:

On the problems of committing resources to either
Win32 and .NET, if they come up with a solution for
the end of the year, with Delphi 2009 just out of the
door, I won't worry...

I don't think Delphi Prism is supposed to support the
.NET Prism ((a beta name) technology...

Delphi 2009 already requires less .NET than Delphi
2007, as the SDK is not needed any more...

The problems with CF support is that designers are not
licensed with Visual Studio Shell...

"Is this Oxygene?" There are many rumors on the
newsgroups pointing in this direction, but nothing
officially indicating (or denying) it...

I don't think you'll have to pay for Visual Studio to
get Delphi Prism with the Visual Studio Shell. That
version of Visual Studio (with no C# and VB.NET) comes
free...

The idea of Delphi going to Eclipse seems to have
absolutely no ground to me. Two different beasts...

I agree that CodeGear should disclose more information
on this project and as soon as possible, to avoid too
mush speculation....

There were less than 5 minutes of the conference
devoted to this topic, so the comment by the old
SD(G)N fan has no ground in this specific respect (I
won't comment more in general, posted on the
conference in another blog entry)....

That's all.

Comment by Marco Cantù [http://www.marcocantu.com] on October 10, 01:50

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

I didn't know about the "Visual Studio Shell" and 
Visual Studio SDK. Well, it Delphi Prims is licensed 
Oxygene that makes sense because it already runs in 
VS. But just to add some FUD <g>, shouldn't we start 
to get worried that Codegear may have some long term 
plans to move its products to the VS Shell? 8-O
Just kidding...

Comment by Luigi D. Sandon on October 12, 16:33

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

We Delphi developers can be compared to a football
being kicked in all possible directions by the very
companies that made it. I am all too confused and is
considering in moving to C#. After having mastered
Win32 development then came .NET and Borland promised
that the whole idea of developing .NET apps using
VCL.NET is the best way to go. That is why they
dropped WinForms support in Delphi 2007 remember.
After being happy and contented using Delphi.NET &
VCL.Net here comes another change in strategy on the
part of Embarcadero. They are now realeasing Delphi
Prism which fully supports .NET, winForms, Silverlight
etc.. All the while I thought that WinForms doesn't
matter anymore and now VCL.NET is on the way out.
Whew!! I hope they present us clear roadmap to our
beloved Delphi. Right now I am just sitting & waiting
for new developments and I will not be surprised if
they declared that Delphi is also on its way out. But
before that happens we Delphi programmers must
leverage our .NET development using other languages
such as C# I guess, or else we'll be doomed if further
developments in Delphi will also be dropped I hope it
will not suffer the same fate as Kylix.
Comment by Rossano Eugenio on April 29, 01:40

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

 Yes, you got it. 
Vanishing up there. The Microsoft bubble cannot be 
far from popping, especially given the world 
situation. Who's going to keep paying into their 
protection racket, when you can get everything free?
Comment by seo melbourne [http://www.googleseoservices.com.au/] on October 2, 11:35

SDN Nick Refers to Delphi Prism 

That might not be bad, if it allows us to dump MS
desktop operating systems and use Linux or Mac.

Comment by Seo Company India [http://www.thetercetgroup.in] on September 20, 09:10


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