January 17, 2007

MSBuild in Next Delphi

Nick Hodges has some interesting news about the next version of Delphi.

In a non-tech thread in the forums, Nick Hodges (Delphi Product Manager) has stated that "the next release of Delphi will use MSBuild as the build engine". This is very good news, as the Project Manager in recent versions of Delphi got some extra features and a change to install build tools, but with limited capabilities. MSBuild, instead, is the Microsoft build tool used in Visual Studio and allows developers to customize the build (and deployment) process with many different tasks.

At the moment you can achieve something similar using third-party build tools, like FinalBuilder. I think this is a very good addition, also because the same build process will be available within the IDE and fromt he command line. Moreover, you'll be able to use MSBuild also for C++ Builder (while in Visual Studio C++ compilations are not managed by MSBuild). More about this in David Dean blog.



MSBuild in Next Delphi 

 Yes, it is very interesting but...... 
Today we dont know a date for the next release of 
delphi, a roadmap , ....... .
I would like to know a date, a roadmap.
All the rest are only words.
Comment by vicente on January 17, 14:46

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

That's another *bad* news. Delphi is more and more 
relying upon VS technologies, instead of using its 
own. If I have to install half of VS to use Delphi, 
why shoulnd't I use the other half? <g>
It is a lock-in into MS tools - I do not like it 
much, any improvement must come from MS first, they 
can only adopt it *later*. IMHO, it's stupid.
There was other tools like WANT, I'd have built upon 
them - or licensed something like FinalBuilder.
Comment by Luigi D. Sandon on January 17, 15:34

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

I have to agree with Luigi. It seems like
Codegear(Borland) (yes, it's a hard-cast <G>) is
moving from being a leader to a follower. Rather than
further supporting MS (in a attempt to draw away MS
centric developers?) it would have been better to
support the existing community by licensing a product
like FinalBuilder or incorporating an existing
open-source solution like WAnt.
Comment by Jody Dawkins [] on January 17, 16:58

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

can't agree more with Luigi D. Sandon 's statement ...

Comment by Liu Dapeng on January 17, 18:19

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

Giving us MS-Technologies, only years later.
How exciting.

I like Delphi but I'm starting to wonder....
Comment by fritz on January 17, 20:15

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

Has anyone analysed the License conditions ?

If I am correct, MSBUILD leaves at least some bytes
into the Executable, meaning you need a to accept a
microsoft  EULA of some kind.

Or do we blindly believe the NickH advertizing :
'codegear is great, we don't have lawyers, we (i.e. a
fully owned affiliate) are not under any control from
our mother company [...]

Whereas #include windows.h or uses windows;
may have limited re-percussions, I believe this is a
typical step from an engineering driver company haven
forgotten strategic view on independence etc...

Comment by Peter T on January 18, 00:03

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

 i agree.. codegear is just making more feature 
limited tools of microsoft tecnologies years later at 
the same price..plain stupid and nonsense.. and they 
are so focused in been .net/vs compatible that they 
are forgeting about the standard vcl win32 delphi 
community that its the only point that makes delphi 
unique.. its vcl its native its standalone and its 
easy.. and the ability to make components in that way 
that you can include them in your application so 
problem free is the thing that makes delphi a very 
cool tool..delphi for .net is just junk.. you can 
have pascal and .net 2.0 on chrome with the 
remobjects vs extension ... and has been available 
since many time now.. and there are no currently 
official delphi for .net 2.0 

so as you say .. codegear is just a follower... lets 
wait to see what ms releases to make a very 
limited,restrictive futureless codegear version  and 
release it just when ms has released a new version of 
the same technology

same crap always...

that kind of moves makes me doubt if i should stay 
with codegear and delphi...because since delphi 8(the 
horror) i constantly feel borland will sudenly drop 
delphi and all my efforts and investments will be 

i suppose i better get prepare to migrate to visual 
c++ or c# just in case something happens with delphi

thats how i feel

Comment by Hermes David Segovia on January 18, 03:19

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

 It seems CodeGear is Microsoft's subsidiary, not 
Borland's. Instead of creating better technologies 
they use Microsoft's. Suppose, they wanted to create 
tools for other operating systems, what then? Will 
they use MSBuild? 
Comment by Jeyhun SF on January 18, 09:48

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

 MSBuild has some great features, and contrary to the 
idea that it leaves a footprint in your code, it is 
JUST a scripting tool for the build process.

A process that has been notriously uncontrolable in 
Delphi until now, so I welcome it.  I understand that 
the previous versions of build were simply too ugly 
to want to use, but what I have seen of MSBuild to 
date has interested me.

Oh, and a fyi to anyone who doesn't know, MSBuild is 
a FREE part of the FREE dotNet SDK...
Comment by Xepol on January 18, 10:03

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

What is the .NET SDK??? <G>
Comment by Luigi D. Sandon on January 18, 18:02

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

I could be wrong about this but did it occur to 
anyone that the reason that CodeGear(Borland) might 
want to adopt MS technologies for their 
infrastructure is that they wish to stay in the .NET 
game as much as they can BUT not devote an 
unreasonable amount of engineering time (I *loathe* 
the term "resource" when used to refer to human 
beings - I'm an ENGINEER, not a "resource"!) to 
playing forever catch up to MS (after all, they own 
the sandbox and can change the sand whenever they 
like and *not* tell anyone about the change until 
they put it in the box)? Why "innovate" when MS may 
change the rules at any time? Case in point - look 
what MS did to VMWare with Vista - broke it, some say 
on purpose (as usual).
CodeGear has already stated they are looking into 
alternate technologies (RubyOnRails, etc.) so why 
devote a huge amount of time and energy to trying 
to "best" MS when they have NO HOPE of doing so? 
You think maybe that CodeGear is going to invent 
a "better" .NET? Not saying they couldn't but that's 
not the point - it won't fly in Windows (just look 
what MS has already done to Java in Windows for a 
classic example) so why try? That's what got CodeGear 
in trouble the last time they went head to head with 
This is NOT to say that they can't make huge strides 
in LANGUAGE features (just read Shemitz ".NET 2.0 for 
Delphi Programmers" for an idea of what is *already* 
in Delphi that makes it *way* better than C# IMHO (I 
can't live without sets and "proper" enumerated types 
and that's just one example)) but CodeGear needs to 
DIVERSIFY to survive - MS will dominate in the .NET 
arena for as long as they are the providers of 
the .NET runtime in Windows. Now, focusing on the 
Mono project and adding to that - that might be a 
good place to look, trouble is, again - no one wants 
to *pay* for *nix stuff - it should all be "nobly" 
donated "for the cause" and in the interests of Free 
Software and on and on ad nauseum. That doesn't pay 
the salaries of the developers and, sorry to say, I'm 
not much into doing things gratis - I have a horse 
that gets *very* hungry and "code donated for a noble 
cause" doesn't pay the hay bill! 
So, in the end, CodeGear needs to find arenas in 
which they can take their considerable savvy and 
apply it to something that we developers will 
consider cool enough to *pay* for and keep coming 
back for more.
Just for the record, I am a loyal Delphi evangelist, 
I have *every* version from 1 to 10 (the latest being 
the architect version and started with TP 3.02a) and 
am looking forward to 11. I am both a hobbyist and 
professional Delphi engineer and will change only 
when economics FORCES me to change (which, unless 
CodeGear Does Something Real Soon, is going to 
Unlike so many others, I *wouldn't* mind seeing a 
Delphi language plug-in to Visual Studio. Don't get 
me wrong, I dislike VS intensely, their editor plain 
*sucks* BUT, it would give the Delphi language a 
legitimacy in the industry (try to get a Delphi job - 
I have one of the VERY FEW that are out there that 
pay worth a darn) that it seems to lack. Where 
CodeGear could do very well is promote the obvious 
superiority of the Delphi language over C# in C#'s 
home turf - THAT is a game that CodeGear COULD win -  
be a better .NET language in Visual Studio. Plus, 
that would open CodeGear to all the latest goodies in 
the upcoming .NET variants and no longer would would 
they have to play catch-up feature-wise. 
As a wise person once said: "The willow bends with 
the wind. Soon there are many willows, a wall against 
Something to think about.
Comment by Fred Weller on January 19, 00:31

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

 In one of joelonsoftware posts Joel presented a list 
of bigest software companies. We can see in it that 
Microsoft makes more sales than next 99 largest 
software companies. So MS is no longer the fish but 
the water in which other software companies float.
I don't mind if Delphi is part of Visual Studio as 
long as it can make Win32 programmes, use VCL etc....
I don't mind using .net or VS as long as my customers 
have a choise not to.
Comment by Ludvik Medvesek [http://www.kvantniskok.com] on January 19, 09:53

MSBuild in Next Delphi 

I remain on Delphi 7 as long as Delphi will come
without net
Comment by Peter on February 20, 00:31

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