January 17, 2007
MSBuild in Next Delphi
Nick Hodges has some interesting news about the next version of Delphi.
In a non-tech thread in the forums, Nick Hodges (Delphi Product Manager) has stated that "the next release of Delphi will use MSBuild as the build engine". This is very good news, as the Project Manager in recent versions of Delphi got some extra features and a change to install build tools, but with limited capabilities. MSBuild, instead, is the Microsoft build tool used in Visual Studio and allows developers to customize the build (and deployment) process with many different tasks.
At the moment you can achieve something similar using third-party build tools, like FinalBuilder. I think this is a very good addition, also because the same build process will be available within the IDE and fromt he command line. Moreover, you'll be able to use MSBuild also for C++ Builder (while in Visual Studio C++ compilations are not managed by MSBuild). More about this in David Dean blog.
13 Comments
MSBuild in Next Delphi
That's another *bad* news. Delphi is more and more relying upon VS technologies, instead of using its own. If I have to install half of VS to use Delphi, why shoulnd't I use the other half? <g> It is a lock-in into MS tools - I do not like it much, any improvement must come from MS first, they can only adopt it *later*. IMHO, it's stupid. There was other tools like WANT, I'd have built upon them - or licensed something like FinalBuilder.Comment by Luigi D. Sandon on January 17, 15:34
MSBuild in Next Delphi
I have to agree with Luigi. It seems like Codegear(Borland) (yes, it's a hard-cast <G>) is moving from being a leader to a follower. Rather than further supporting MS (in a attempt to draw away MS centric developers?) it would have been better to support the existing community by licensing a product like FinalBuilder or incorporating an existing open-source solution like WAnt.Comment by Jody Dawkins [] on January 17, 16:58
MSBuild in Next Delphi
can't agree more with Luigi D. Sandon 's statement ...Comment by Liu Dapeng on January 17, 18:19
MSBuild in Next Delphi
Giving us MS-Technologies, only years later. How exciting. YAWN I like Delphi but I'm starting to wonder....Comment by fritz on January 17, 20:15
MSBuild in Next Delphi
Has anyone analysed the License conditions ? If I am correct, MSBUILD leaves at least some bytes into the Executable, meaning you need a to accept a microsoft EULA of some kind. Or do we blindly believe the NickH advertizing : 'codegear is great, we don't have lawyers, we (i.e. a fully owned affiliate) are not under any control from our mother company [...] Whereas #include windows.h or uses windows; may have limited re-percussions, I believe this is a typical step from an engineering driver company haven forgotten strategic view on independence etc...Comment by Peter T on January 18, 00:03
MSBuild in Next Delphi
i agree.. codegear is just making more feature limited tools of microsoft tecnologies years later at the same price..plain stupid and nonsense.. and they are so focused in been .net/vs compatible that they are forgeting about the standard vcl win32 delphi community that its the only point that makes delphi unique.. its vcl its native its standalone and its easy.. and the ability to make components in that way that you can include them in your application so problem free is the thing that makes delphi a very cool tool..delphi for .net is just junk.. you can have pascal and .net 2.0 on chrome with the remobjects vs extension ... and has been available since many time now.. and there are no currently official delphi for .net 2.0 so as you say .. codegear is just a follower... lets wait to see what ms releases to make a very limited,restrictive futureless codegear version and release it just when ms has released a new version of the same technology same crap always... that kind of moves makes me doubt if i should stay with codegear and delphi...because since delphi 8(the horror) i constantly feel borland will sudenly drop delphi and all my efforts and investments will be useless i suppose i better get prepare to migrate to visual c++ or c# just in case something happens with delphi thats how i feel CheersComment by Hermes David Segovia on January 18, 03:19
MSBuild in Next Delphi
It seems CodeGear is Microsoft's subsidiary, not Borland's. Instead of creating better technologies they use Microsoft's. Suppose, they wanted to create tools for other operating systems, what then? Will they use MSBuild?Comment by Jeyhun SF on January 18, 09:48
MSBuild in Next Delphi
MSBuild has some great features, and contrary to the idea that it leaves a footprint in your code, it is JUST a scripting tool for the build process. A process that has been notriously uncontrolable in Delphi until now, so I welcome it. I understand that the previous versions of build were simply too ugly to want to use, but what I have seen of MSBuild to date has interested me. Oh, and a fyi to anyone who doesn't know, MSBuild is a FREE part of the FREE dotNet SDK...Comment by Xepol on January 18, 10:03
MSBuild in Next Delphi
I could be wrong about this but did it occur to anyone that the reason that CodeGear(Borland) might want to adopt MS technologies for their infrastructure is that they wish to stay in the .NET game as much as they can BUT not devote an unreasonable amount of engineering time (I *loathe* the term "resource" when used to refer to human beings - I'm an ENGINEER, not a "resource"!) to playing forever catch up to MS (after all, they own the sandbox and can change the sand whenever they like and *not* tell anyone about the change until they put it in the box)? Why "innovate" when MS may change the rules at any time? Case in point - look what MS did to VMWare with Vista - broke it, some say on purpose (as usual). CodeGear has already stated they are looking into alternate technologies (RubyOnRails, etc.) so why devote a huge amount of time and energy to trying to "best" MS when they have NO HOPE of doing so? You think maybe that CodeGear is going to invent a "better" .NET? Not saying they couldn't but that's not the point - it won't fly in Windows (just look what MS has already done to Java in Windows for a classic example) so why try? That's what got CodeGear in trouble the last time they went head to head with MS. This is NOT to say that they can't make huge strides in LANGUAGE features (just read Shemitz ".NET 2.0 for Delphi Programmers" for an idea of what is *already* in Delphi that makes it *way* better than C# IMHO (I can't live without sets and "proper" enumerated types and that's just one example)) but CodeGear needs to DIVERSIFY to survive - MS will dominate in the .NET arena for as long as they are the providers of the .NET runtime in Windows. Now, focusing on the Mono project and adding to that - that might be a good place to look, trouble is, again - no one wants to *pay* for *nix stuff - it should all be "nobly" donated "for the cause" and in the interests of Free Software and on and on ad nauseum. That doesn't pay the salaries of the developers and, sorry to say, I'm not much into doing things gratis - I have a horse that gets *very* hungry and "code donated for a noble cause" doesn't pay the hay bill! So, in the end, CodeGear needs to find arenas in which they can take their considerable savvy and apply it to something that we developers will consider cool enough to *pay* for and keep coming back for more. Just for the record, I am a loyal Delphi evangelist, I have *every* version from 1 to 10 (the latest being the architect version and started with TP 3.02a) and am looking forward to 11. I am both a hobbyist and professional Delphi engineer and will change only when economics FORCES me to change (which, unless CodeGear Does Something Real Soon, is going to happen). Unlike so many others, I *wouldn't* mind seeing a Delphi language plug-in to Visual Studio. Don't get me wrong, I dislike VS intensely, their editor plain *sucks* BUT, it would give the Delphi language a legitimacy in the industry (try to get a Delphi job - I have one of the VERY FEW that are out there that pay worth a darn) that it seems to lack. Where CodeGear could do very well is promote the obvious superiority of the Delphi language over C# in C#'s home turf - THAT is a game that CodeGear COULD win - be a better .NET language in Visual Studio. Plus, that would open CodeGear to all the latest goodies in the upcoming .NET variants and no longer would would they have to play catch-up feature-wise. As a wise person once said: "The willow bends with the wind. Soon there are many willows, a wall against wind". Something to think about.Comment by Fred Weller on January 19, 00:31
MSBuild in Next Delphi
In one of joelonsoftware posts Joel presented a list of bigest software companies. We can see in it that Microsoft makes more sales than next 99 largest software companies. So MS is no longer the fish but the water in which other software companies float. I don't mind if Delphi is part of Visual Studio as long as it can make Win32 programmes, use VCL etc.... I don't mind using .net or VS as long as my customers have a choise not to.Comment by Ludvik Medvesek [http://www.kvantniskok.com] on January 19, 09:53
MSBuild in Next Delphi
I remain on Delphi 7 as long as Delphi will come without netComment by Peter on February 20, 00:31
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MSBuild in Next Delphi
Comment by vicente on January 17, 14:46