October 1, 2005
Delphi Passion
After the publication of the raodmap of Delphi (see my second-last post), there are been a flur of thoughts in the Delphi community. Among others, Allen Bauer in his blog post [Passionate producers = passionate consumers] and Nick Hodges in two posts [Allen makes me swoon] and [Dignity is Deadly] have covered a few relevant points. Some of the readers comments to these posts and other blog posts have provided further insight. Let me recap some of the ideas (in my own words):
- In trying to be professional to enter the high-end consulting and enterprise market, Borland has lost its barbarian attitude of the early days. This might be OK for selling ALM and Together, but not for selling Delphi to its dedicated (or should I say devoted) community.
- Delphi is not an IDE, like JBuilder. Sell the Delphi compiler with no libraries as a VS add-in, and you've killed it. Sell an IDE with a compiler with no libraries, and you've killed it. Sell IDE + libraries + compiler but loose the community (say, with buggy ALM-driven products), and you risk of killing it as well. The community is an integral prt of the Delphi experience, as I metnioned in my Why Delphi entry introducing this blog.
- Delphi is a passion, not only a business. This has been hardly understood by any Borland CEO after Philippe Kahn (which was there before the Delphi days, but shipped Delphi version -8.0, that is Turbo Pascal). And marketing rarely addressed this, with the exclusion of some recent operations like the delphi super heros... (see Jason Vokes blog).
- In a separate discussion I've had recently, I noticed how the Delphi community is getting older and older in age. Few young developers join it.
Now, what could be done about these issues? As I posted to Allen's blog:
Borland should shepard and help building this community, help the
Delphi
-related open source projects in any possible way (like you are doing with fastmm, fastcode...), keep the community gurus in the business loop (I seems to be unable even to be a formal Borland partner, these days, and that's not just me): with the last printed magazine going online only Borland needs to put effort (and money) into this!
Let me expand on this a little. It is true Borland has its BDN site, which is nice, but the amount of information published could be better if Borland had more people looking after it and more money. I remember I was involved when it started and there was a dedicated editor, a team of authors providing weekly articles, and more. Now there is handly a person of the small DevRel team for it. Too little (even the DevRel team is doing a lot with so little).
Community involvement via open source projects is now getting back with FastCode and FastMM, but many other communities have been somewhat abandoned (JEDI, to mention one). It is true that not every project is worth being pushed and some communities see a reduced anhusiams, but the involvement in an open source Delphi project is and would be a great community building tool. Another are the newsgroups, but these have always been superb in Borland's history, from the CompuServe forums (mentioning which I'm revealing my age) to the current newsgroups. Also thanks for TeamBers. I see the same community involvement in the Italian Delphi newsgroup I help running.
Another isssue, related with the age problem (but not only) is the lack of distribution of a free or entry level version of Delphi. Make it a GPL-only (all the project you build with it must be free and come with full public source) or use any other constraint (but not the silly ones, like removing a few components people can find for free), but let any developer in the world and any It student have a legal copy of Delphi for free or a very small fee, to play with and to help in open source projects. Borland is the company that was started by a crazy guy who sold a pascal compiler for 50$ , a quarter of the price of its most known competitor (Microsoft), providing a better tool. MS Pascal is now long forgotten...
Finally, the keep the gurus in the loop might seem a self-interesting recommandation and it is indeed. If it wasn't for the passion me and most other Delphi gurus would have moved elsewhere. I've started training on Delphi a few months after it was released, and I've never been able to be a formal Borland training partner: but Cary Jensen or Bob Swart (just to mention two others) are in a similar situation. Is Borland making money with its Delphi training program? I really doubt. If they are not making money, why they keep stumping on the feet of their best friends? This is a mistery I'll never fully understand.
Now the Delphi Magazine is becoming an online publishtion, the last two versions of Delphi have seen a book each in the US market... I'd be worried and would try to invert this trend. Now that we need more printed material. Online is equally OK. But the problem is that if I browse the last (still on paper) issue of the Delphi Magazine I see no (zero, zilch, nada) Borland ad! And this is the only printed Delphi magazine left in the world, AFAIK! I have 3,000 pages of Delphi material I'm sitting on: If BDN makes me a good offer they'll probably use a yearly budget!
Well, you can see from this post. I'm getting passionate as well... it is a passion for Delphi and for its community, in which I have countless friends. We live in a Delphi world!
25 Comments
JEDI abandoned
What I meant is that I got the impression that projects like JEDI have been abandoned by Borland... not by their own community. [I do use JCL, in particular.] I help the InstantObjects group and there is no connection with Borland whatsoever. I think Borland should help more (with visibility, integration help, conference presentations, BDN articles, web hosting, and the like -- I mean, not directly with money but in many other ways).Comment by Marco Cantù [http://www.marcocantu.com] on October 1, 01:05
Borland Marketing
< But the problem is that if I browse the last (still on paper) issue of the Delphi Magazine I see no (zero, zilch, nada) Borland ad! And this is the only printed Delphi magazine left in the world, AFAIK! > When I read this statement the first thought I had was "Why try buying ad space in a delphi magazine?" Seriously, if you are reading a delphi magazine then you probably have Delphi already. Borland should place more ads in other more mainstream publications. Then I thought the opposite. Of course, they need to buy ad space in delphi magazines because that is where their market is; with current delphi developers. -- RobertComment by Robert Kozak [http://www.dealerdesktop.com] on October 1, 01:10
Delphi Passion
>>Let me recap some of the ideas (in my own words): you missed the fact that there are two versions of "Delphi for .NET", one of them abandoned (Delphi 8), and the other one slowly getting fixed with unnoficial updates, so it's going to take 3 versions of Delphi to get .NET 1.1 right? who can afford that? who will trust Borland that Dexter will actually be usable as an IDE? how many companies that bought Delphi 8 also bought Delphi 2005? and how many companies that bought Delphi 2005 will buy Dexter?... I know the one I work for won't, and that was a couple hundred licenses, and I have no choice but to move on with Visual Studio =o(Comment by BlackTigerX [http://ebersys.blogspot.com] on October 1, 01:31
Delphi Passion
Couldn't have said it better myself, Marco. You have analysed the exact problem with Borland's attitude toward Delphi since somewhere after the the Delphi2/Delphi3 timeframe about the time Java and JBuilder hit the scene. KudosComment by Mark Andrews on October 1, 01:42
Delphi Passion
<And this is the only printed Delphi magazine left in the world, AFAIK!> Well, we have Clube Delphi in Brazil, and I'm a subscriber of it http://www.devmedia.com.br/clubedelphi/ Regards, Marco SangaliComment by Marco Sangali [] on October 1, 02:16
Delphi Passion
<i>In a separate discussion I've had recently, I noticed how the Delphi community is getting older and older in age. Few young developers join it.</i> This was exactly my point about a month ago. We are like dinosaurs... we are still here but our time is passing... with no new people... well... we will be gone very soon... as well as there will be no use for passion...Comment by Serge on October 1, 02:27
Delphi Passion
Hi Marco, I think you hit the nail on the head with this statement, "Another isssue, related with the age problem (but not only) is the lack of distribution of a free or entry level version of Delphi.". Just today I had a conversation with a colleague who was interested in learning Delphi, but mentioned how costly it is to get into it. His response, 'I'll go dig out my VS'. The pricing structure is not designed to lure in those curious folks, rather retain the current following. Offering educational and low priced versions would be beneficial for those curious folks. Also a marketing planned towards the educational institutes would benefit. Marketing should also hit one critical area: Educational Institutes. If they could get colleges or high schools to teach Delphi (like they do C, Java, HTML , etc..) the user base and following would grow significantly. M$ 'gives' copies of development software away to college students via student licensing. Just another 2 cents...Comment by Brad Prendergast [http://www.bpsoftware.com] on October 1, 04:01
Delphi Passion
It has taken Borland months, perhaps years to finally fix bugs as documented in Quality Central. It has taken a similar amount of time for the company to really document developers concerns with having a back and forth b------- contest over an obviously buggy product. It is my hope that they get the message as documented in your writing. I hope that they further address and take action on the issues that you have identified within a very reasonable period of time. How long is reasonable. In Borland's Delphi case it is yesterday. I hope that Dexter fixes many of the problems, but I will not trust that this is a good product until I have test driven a free version of it for myself. Due to my past history with Borland's product, Delphi is no longer entitled to the automatic purchase/upgrade.Comment by D-Fan - R Coyle on October 1, 06:04
Printed Delphi magazines
>>And this is the only printed Delphi magazine left in the world In Brazil we still have ClubeDelphi Magazine http://www.devmedia.com.br/clubedelphi/ and Active Delphi magazine http://www.activedelphi.com.br/Comment by Rod [] on October 1, 07:21
Delphi Passion
I second the motion of entry level full-strengh releases, but also they could be simply free old discontinued products, like Delphi 3 or Delphi 5, just like the JBuilder Foundation X. And you're so right about the ages! I've still a bunch of disks with my TP3/CPM projects :)Comment by Luis C.M. on October 1, 10:24
Delphi Passion
I know about the Brazilian Delphi magazine, I meant "English-language magazine", but forgot to write it down. I've been told that the Brasilian market (like the German one) have also seen a few Delphi books recently. Also, thanks for the many comments. For those who've lost faith in Delphi, I do understand you, but I don't think all is lost. I think Borland still has a chance or two.Comment by Marco Cantù [http://www.marcocantu.com] on October 1, 15:02
Delphi Passion
I saw mentioned Brazil and Germany - Russia and other Ex-USSR countries should not be forgotton. While often not very well documented - there are many excellent Russian components. And - not to forget www.torry.net and www.delphiplus.org - the last one should also be interesting to follow for non-russians as the links are interesting. To quote a russian programmer: "Perhaps FreePascal should be considered, now that Delphi has become the monster". In Russia it also seems that younger developers join. Best regards from Non-russian...Comment by Plus Russians... [http://www.delphiplus.org] on October 2, 18:32
Borland is helping ;-)
Just to follow up on this "borland abandonned open source projects": Borland is providing the hosting and bandwidth for many JEDI projects (if not all). We also have contacts with some "Borlanders", even if they are scarce as we rarely need their direct help. Finally, even though there haven't been any "JEDI" session at any Borcon in the past, it may happen in the future (well, not in Brazil, it got refused). So in the end, they do help, but as many other companies, it's not said publicly much.Comment by Olivier Sannier [http://homepages.borland.com/jedi/jvcl] on October 3, 17:40
Delphi Passion
I just re-read your post and have an additional comment. You mentioned that the original TP compiler was $50.00; I bought TP 3.01A for $39.95 retail. This was the MOST expensive product Borland sold at the time! For $39.95 you got a very capable product, not some stripped down version that had restrictions on usage. Borland needs to release a real, functional Delphi product with NO Restrictions for $99.95 that ANYONE can purchase.Comment by Mark Andrews on October 3, 23:49
Delphi Passion
I totally agree with your posting Marco. My nephew is starting to get interested in programming and although I would like to think that he would like Delphi, the fact is that he would be so far out of the mainstream as to really limit his job prospects. His school is teaching Java. Oh well. In addition, as one of 2 delphi programmers at my company (the other 6 are VB6 soon to be VB.NET), my colleague and I have concluded that although our Win32 apps will remain in Deplhi for now, any new development will be in C# and done using the VS IDE. It's a shame that Borland has failed to capture the enthusiasm of the evolving market. They just don't stand out like they used to. I wish Borland well and have really enjoyed working in Delphi, but I need to keep my job and that means transitioning to C# and .NET.Comment by Charles Hodgkins on October 4, 00:31
Delphi Passion
The price point is, in my opinion, a huge issue. If the current Delphi pricing was in place back in '97-ish, when I abandoned VB and bought the $100 Standard edition of the latest Delphi version, I never would've given it a look. There's no way a student, hobbyist or beginning shareware developer is going to spend $1000 for a programming tool where there are numerous free options and $100 versions of Visual C#/C++/VB available. I'm about to abandon Delphi for C# in my own projects and I'm working in a growing 5-programmer shop that's taking a very serious look at C#, and it's all about the cost. Clearly my employer and I are not the kind of customer that Borland wants.Comment by Diragor on October 4, 02:39
Delphi Passion - New blood
I just wanted to say that there are still young programmers who share the Delphi Passion, I am one of them(I'm 23 years old). I got to know Delphi with a free version of Delphi 5 included with a UK magazine. Then I used Delphi 7 during my higher education. And now I'm working at a company that uses Delphi 5 and 7. It's awesome to work in Delphi again after 2 years of Visual C++!!Comment by Bert [Otherside] Derijckere on October 4, 14:05
Delphi Passion
I think you are right about the old age of delphi
programmers...I'm a 20 year old delphi programmer
from Portugal, but i don't see my colleagues
programming with delphi, they use Visual C++, C# or
JAVA. Why? Because that's what is teatched at
colleges and universities...Borland should invest in
distributing a "Student Delphi Version" in a way
that it brings more programmers to this language,
and make universities invest in this programming
language.Also they should not kill Borland Kylix
because with some improvements it could become the
best programming tool for linux, and once that
Macintosh computers will be moving to intel
processors, they should start working on making
delphi compiling for it.
At last, i just want to say, that i bought recently
your Book ("Mastering Delphi 2005"), i'm reading it
by now, and let me say for now i'm liking it very
much. Keep the good work :)
Comment by Jóni Duarte Silva
[joni.duarte.silva@gmail.com]
on October 7, 18:46
Delphi Passion
In terms of Delphi programmers' age, I'm 27 and I've been using Delphi since D2. I work for a company that uses mostly MS products (VB6, etc). After complaining for months about the shortcomings of these development tools, I finally pursuaded them to purchase Delphi (albeit version 7). We're gradually moving to developing all our new projects in Delphi, cutting development times and increasing the functionality delivered!Comment by Danie Loots [] on October 25, 17:04
Delphi Passion
Greetings Marco, I just wanted to write and let you know that this is by far one of the best articles I've read recently regarding delphi. While I utilize some of the newer languages; there is a special place in my heart for delphi. One of the things that I believe hurts delphi propogation in the US is the lack of 'updated' content sites. Granted, there is Torry and DSP. But some of the mega sites don't have english translations. Another issue that hurts is the confusion that borland/devco promotes regarding .net/vcl.net/and vcl. Granted, while it is relatively "clear" which to use when, there is a large lack of 3rd party controls that support vcl.net and vcl. There are a "few" such as TMS and LMD that are on the band-wagon; but the more widely adopted such as Raize and Devexpress have little to no vcl.net support (devexpress has little with raize having none). There are some little known shinging stars out there like fastcode/fastmm but there is almost no documentation out there to support them. Granted intermediate to advanced delphi developers can make use of them easily but people are used to project documentation like the apache(jakarta) foundation provides and the lack of that either deters or just plain scares away new developers. I dont want to sound like I'm griping; these are just some the holes that one developer sees. One suggestion I can make for Borland/Devco would be to start subsidizing some of this work (but not lose their remaining cash either). With an upgrade/new purchase including a year subscription to Delphi magazine (it is the last one left) and/or a year to delphi3000.Comment by Michael in az on May 3, 18:38
Delphi Passion
That's a good article. I'm a 24 year old Delphi programmer. I definitely agree with the article. Borland is lucky that there is such a dedicated community of Delphi programmers when they've really spent no time developing that community at all. As you mentioned, they've virtually abandoned many of the best avenues to help the community (which in turn will definitely help them) Now, I'm fairly new to Delphi, I've only been using it for a year, but I am definitely hooked. Sure I'll do a thing or two in C++, but that's only related to getting a computer science degree. Delphi's definitely my main language, so I must echo my concern that if Borland dosen't get their act together, Delphi may atrophy into obscurity. Really, this community is the only thing keeping Delphi alive. If Borland dosen't recognize this and start investing in it, the community will slowly drift away. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.Comment by Jeff Quindlen [http://techheadaches.blogspot.com] on July 4, 21:58
Delphi Passion
I've been using Delphi (first 3, but now 7) for a number of years. It's the only language I know - and obviously I like it. Can you tell me if my applications will run on the newer Windows coming out later this year? If I have to upgrade, where should I go? Delphi 2006? If I upgrade to D2006, will I have to re-write, or will my code upgrade to the higher version?Comment by Colin on September 5, 17:23
Delphi 2007 and the future of programming jobs that uses delphi
So what is the future of Borland/Delphi. I was a long time Delphi developer from 1997-2002. Then I had to switch to Java/C#. Delphi is a great language and IDE, but what scare alot of youngsters is the Lack of Jobs that uses Delphi. Sure you'll learn all about coding, but what happens to you getting a job and making a living? Do a search on monster/dice for delphi jobs! you will not see an update for 500 opened posts. Do the sames for java/.net and you will get loads of hits. I believe that this is due to borland bad marketing strategy. I love delphi and wanna get back to it, but I won't be able to pay the bills at home as no body uses delphi for enterprise application:-)Comment by James Houston on May 15, 21:32
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JEDI abandonned? Not quite.
Comment by Olivier Sannier [http://jvcl.sf.net/] on October 1, 00:57